E-Scooters vs E-bikes

Back by popular demand. What is the difference?

If everything is the same, then the only variable would be wind resistance and heat loss due to friction in determining which goes the longest range in a side by side experiment.

As far as hill climbing, if they geared to go the same speed then they both will climb the hill at the same speed since the motor is turning RPM's against the same load given the gear ratio on both have been matched.

Acceleration, since they are geared the same and everything else is identical would probably be the same as well.

My opinion, the scooter would win the distance experiment because it's more aerodynamic in my opinion. A bicycle has a lot more "drag" due to the way the rider sits and the way the bike just rams through the air. The scooter at least has some deflection of air around itself and the rider.

The benefit of the scooter may be range, where as the benefit of the bike is backup power (your legs if the battery goes dead).

Good question. Somebody should do a comparison someday. The BMC 600w motor is used on both scooters and Currie bike kits, so it would be a good comparison. A couple of drain brains would do it.

One thing I do know is the scooter tires I use (12.5") are extremely inefficient. Even after a relatively short ride the tires get noticeably warm, despite having a great amout of air cooling. I suspect the energy loss from the tires is almost equal to the motor under many conditions.

I think bicycle tires have much lower rolling resistance.

Everything else is pretty much the same. I'm not sure about wind resistance. With the way I sit on my scooter, the frontal area is pretty big and it's hard to tuck into a more aerodynamic position. The frontal area of the frame is pretty minimal.

What we need is for someone to loan us a wind tunnel?

I recall one of NASA's wind tunnels in Cleveland is rated up to mach 7...


http://facilities.grc.nasa.gov/htf/quick.html

Probably old news but razor recall
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05193.html

Though there's plenty of overlap, I subjectively find the more-maneuverable scooter a little more fun, and the more efficient/less attention-attracting ebike a lot more practical.

I mostly ride the ebike.

Biggest difference is range! With 25-30AH battery, I can ride my Panasonic pedelec over 100 miles. For the same AH battery pack, my ESR scooter is lucky to reach 10-12 miles. 10x the range for the same AH capacity!

e-bikes are very practical hybrids and for serious range they easily outperform scooters IMO. Scooters are more fun to ride and for short trips, they're very useful/practical.

Mixed-mode commuting is another great use for scooters. 20lb, 20mph, 2 mile range lightweight scooter can be very useful for riding subways/buses.

Biggest difference is range! With 25-30AH battery, I can ride my Panasonic pedelec over 100 miles. For the same AH battery pack, my ESR scooter is lucky to reach 10-12 miles. 10x the range for the same AH capacity!

Click to expand...

Something's not right with these results. The discrepancy is too big!

Riding full speed, my schwinn s1000 consistently gets 7-10 miles on it's 4, 10 ah batteries for ~1 mile per ah.

My ebike, if I don't pedal and really push it, gets about 30 miles on its 33 ah batteries for ~1 mile per ah. If I pedal and keep the speed to 15 mph, it gets ~90 miles or ~3 miles per ah. Usually my consumption is in between at about 2 miles per ah.

Most people as I recall report about 1 mile per ah for their scooters, and about 2 miles per ah for their ebikes. A 10x difference suggests something's amiss with your ESR or it's batteries.

xyster said:

If I pedal and keep the speed to 15 mph, it gets ~90 miles or ~3 miles per ah.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm making a very extreme comparison. The Panasonic is about as frugal an e-bike as you can get and probably more of a 12-13 mph pedelec. I'm guess-timating things somewhat, but not without considerable mileage/experience to feel confident about making such an extreme comparison.

The roughly 2.6AH stock Panasonic battery is good for about 10 miles. When I add my 26AH NiMh packs into the mix, that's 10x capacity which hits very close to 100 mile range. I've never ridden that distance in a single outing but I've had several 30-50 mile days with my 26AH add-on's and after they cooled, they only required a partial charge cycle.

My ESR is in fine shape technically speaking and I have plenty of experience daily commuting with it. Compared to the Panasonic, it's an amp hog! Depending on hills, wind, terrain and turbo mode it can consume 23AH and barely make 10 miles. Of course, it reaches double top speed of the Panasonic but it's all on the motor with no pedaling which will extend range a great deal.

Anyway, sorry to rile you a bit if I did? merely painting an extreme comparison in the spirit of a real user who's happy to see some people still give a damn about this technology.

Have a good one, cause I know I'm gonna!

What about the voltage?
You can't compare miles/Ahr with different battery voltages.

You can compare Whr per mile (multiply Ahr x battery voltage).

What about the voltage?
You can't compare miles/Ahr with different battery voltages.

Click to expand...

That's correct, of course. My '~1 mile per rated ah on scooters' observation is simplistic because it comes from a very unscientific recollection of many threads on this topic. Most scooters presently run either 36 or 48 volts, so there's not much variability there anyway.

My Stealth gets 7-10 miles with 10ah SLA @ 48 volts on the flats at full speed. It sounds like ESR's far worse figures are due to hilly terrain.

Our ebike energy consumption observations sound very similar though.

Anyway, sorry to rile you a bit if I did?

Click to expand...

Rile me? Not in the least. I just thought there must be some sensible explanation as to the large discrepancy between our scooter efficiency observations.

I'm throwing a lot of guesses & butt dyno engineering around so there's bound to be plenty of discrepancies. Thanks for being clear about your thoughts and so many of the great threads I've read with your awesome contributions.

My Panasonic and ESR are all 24Vdc, I thought that was obvious since I mentioned using the 2qty 13Ah NiMh packs for extending range of either platform? Including my EX3 it's all 24Vdc for my NY stuff.

In CA, I have a cheapo (Kragen Cruizer) brush hub motor e-bike found on CraigsList that was originally 24Vdc but I've been trying to blow-up at 36Vdc. Controller/motor seem to be fine after many months of runtime. I enjoy the twist on-demand throttle much more than the Panasonic but range suffers greatly. Probably 1/2 the range of the Panasonic for same AH and volts for comparison.

I can baby, kick and dial-in much better econo range from my ESR but 100% power ON with my weight and frontal area really sucks down the amps. Like you mention and obviously know from experience, even mild hills can swing things drastically into one extreme or the other with regard to range.

Gonna get back to reading more posts, take care guys!

I think that aerodynamically, the rider is more of an issue than the vehicle.

Ebikes generally have taller tires for less rolling resistance.

Scooters generally have smaller tires with more rolling resistance, but have lower centers of gravity, and can carry more weight.

In Trice's tire study, they found that air pressure also has a great affect on rolling resistance.

Though, AFAIK, no current ebike frame allows you to carry as much battery and cargo as I would like. I used to carry 88lbs of batteries ~40kg, and another 40LBS of groceries, and it wasn't scary to ride.

D-Man said:

What are the differences between an e-bike and e-scooter performance wise? <SNIP>Also, are there benefits of having a scooter that e-bikers are not aware of?

Click to expand...

Hey D-Man...

My first post here.

I've been riding Currie-built kick scoots w/PA for the last six years or so.

Well over 10K km of urban commutes and travels now.

I drove cars for many years. Rode the Victorian pedal bike thousands of kms too. You know, that vehicle which you jam in your crotch and wiggle around on?

I have a pedal bike that I love, but I parked it permanently when I started kickin'

Of course, serious kickin' folks will point out that the Curries are lousy kick scoots. Designed well to the motor end of the kick-motor spectrum of scooter designs.

So my next kick scoot will be easier to kick, with platform lower to the ground, and based around a 16" Crystalyte hub motor for its front wheel.

With a motor rated about 600w continuous, in truth it will be a powered scoot with HA - human-assist. Packing lithium too, not lead.

In 2000, the US Consumer Products Safety Commission studied (unpowered) kick scooters, when North America was being flooded with cheap kick scoots for kids...

From their findings:
"CPSC staff compared scooter injury rates with injury rates for
similar products -- including skateboards, in-line skates, and
bicycles."

"The comparison showed that:
Scooter riding had the lowest rate of emergency-room-treated
injury per 1,000 participants among the four products/
activities (3.09 per 1,000)."

"Bicycling had the highest rate of emergency-room-treated
injuries (12.58 per 1,000)."

"Bicycle riders reported more than twice as many days of
riding (61.3) on average than did scooter riders (29.9)
in 2000. But the injury rate for bicycles (2.05 per
10,000 days) was still double the rate for scooters
(1.03 per 10,000 days)."

"When considering the injury rates per 10,000 days of
participation for these four activities, skateboarding
was associated with the highest rate of injury. The
skate-boarding rate (2.51 per 10,000 days) was almost
2.5 times the rate for scooters."

"Scooters were associated with the lowest rate of injury
among those four products, regardless of which exposure
measure was used."


And even with the "lowest rate of injury" noted, what these quotes omit
to say is that their study found that many of the injuries to scooter
riders were due only to poor design and cheap construction (sharp edges,
for example.) And that of course, most of the riders they were studying
were very young and inexperienced. And that many of the reports were filed second-hand, from parents that hadn't even seen the accident.

A well-designed and built kick scooter offers numerous advantages over the pedal bicycle for urban environments.

With smaller wheel diameters, it has a much shorter overall length, perhaps two feet shorter, but a wheel-base the same as the pedal bike with large diameter wheels.

Urban bike shops are selling lots more folding bikes and bikes with smaller wheels these days.

The shorter overall length makes these two-wheelers much easier to maneuver in pathways crowded with pedestrians, or through doors, or indoors. Easier to carry up stair wells. Easier to turn around in elevators. The vehicle can be tucked away in many places that the pedal bike can not.

Replacement tires and tubes are cheaper.

One of the great things and fun things about power-assist is the great acceleration that the electrics afford. This makes it easier for the rider to slow down when safety dictates (knowing that higher speeds can be regained quickly and easily.)

In theory, the smaller the wheel diameter, the faster the hub motor wheel should be able to “spin-upâ€￾, all else being equal. So I have been happy with the Currie 12.5â€￾ wheels, except for two things…

The tires that are available are generally intended for the sort of 12.5â€￾ wheel found on a small childs vehicle… The quality and selection of tires just isn’t there, compared to the larger diameters. And certainly not intended for the higher RPMs of faster travels.

And the torque of electrics does tear up the rubber. On the Curries, I’ve been replacing three or four back (driven) tires for every front tire, because of wear.

So moving to 16â€￾ gets me into some high quality street tires… Things like Hookworms and Schwalbe Big Apples.

And, the smaller the wheel/tire, the higher the RPMs for any given speed, such that any imbalances in the manufacture or the set on the rim or the wear on the tire become more noticeable, as shakes or vibrations.

So for me, 16â€￾ is a compromise.

Kick scooters have no seats to get wet in the rain, or to get stolen, or to have to disconnect and pack around for securities sake. (I live in the bike theft Capital of North America, apparently.)

There are many reports that most bicycle riders are on vehicles that are not properly sized or adjusted for their own measurements. Leg lengths, etc. And reports of “damageâ€￾ that can happen to males sitting on poorly designed seats, or to anyone from strains that can result from a poorly fitted pedal bike.

With the stand-up kick scoot, it’s more of a one-size-fits-all scenario, where only the handle height needs to be adjusted, and this is easy to do. And the money saved on not buying Preparation H alone… well, errr, never mind… :lol:

In fact it is really important on the kick scooter platform *not* to rest your weight on the handles. With rider weight resting entirely on the feet, the scooter has far less of a tendency for the rider to catapult over the handles at a panic stop. And in my case, resting any weight on my wrists is painful anyway, because of RSI.

Having fallen off both pedal bicycles and kick scooters many times, I believe I know why the scooters are inherently safer for the rider.

Scooter riders tend to fall more onto their feet, or knees and hands. Pedal bike riders, with their vehicles comfortably jammed in their crotches, have their legs more tangled with the vehicle, and tend to topple over onto their torsos and shoulders and heads.

Small, light weight motorized vehicles, as bicycles with power-assist, are the safest vehicles we have today. Not perhaps for the rider, but for everyone else around them, on foot, or on wheels.

I believe that when you remove the “safetyâ€￾ of crush zones and air bags and seat belts etc, that most operators become more circumspect about their personal safety, and this makes them safer for everyone else around them.

With this perspective, the kick scooters are safer still.

Because it is so much easier for the rider to mount and dismount.

To shift from walking to kicking and motoring and back to walking again.

This ease promotes safer behaviour around pedestrians, where the pedal bike rider might be less inclined to dismount, because this is more “troubleâ€￾.

Another point about slower speeds… You will notice the pedal bike riders at very slow speeds wobbling around as their natural balance mechanism auto-corrects things to keep the riders weight (resting high up over the wheels, on the seat) over top of the wheels.

Scooters, with the riders weight resting on feet, low to the ground and between the wheel axles or lower, do no exhibit this tendency to wobble, anywhere near to the same degree.

So it is a more comfortable ride for the rider, and promotes less “angstâ€￾ among any pedestrians nearby as well.

Two years ago the Currie flew with me as “luggageâ€￾, folded down into a shoulder bag.

The airline pronounced it too small to be a bicycle, which normally require their special packaging and extra charges.

If I owned a four-wheeled vehicle, I suppose it would be easier than a pedal bike to stow in the trunk as well… It is certainly easier to stow aboard the boat.

Any well designed power-assist vehicle should have a battery pack that can be removed for charging in doors. My next scooter certainly will. Currie didn’t get this right with their older scooters either.

Because my average commutes run to 20km (one way), and trips around town have been longer, and because the Curries only come with small lead packs that suffer with age and cold ambient temperatures and longer distances, I have opportunity charged a lot over the years. In client offices and restaurant patios and coffee shops etc.

Offices and patios are not places you usually see pedal bicycles.

But the smaller scooter is easier to “sneakâ€￾ into these sorts of establishments. Not to mean “sneakâ€￾ as in undiscovered, but that it appears so much smaller than a pedal bicycle, and really can be “parkedâ€￾ behind a desk or a seat or potted plant (anywhere next to the plug!), and visually just “disappearsâ€￾, so that management or security just don’t object…

Helps to be a regular customer of course <smile>.

When folks ask “How long does it take to chargeâ€￾, well, the simple answer is of course that much of the time that it is charging I am working or sleeping or eating or playing, so of course it takes no time at all!

So D-Man. What else can I tell you – scooter versus pedal bike?

I intended this msg to be much longer, but it is late and my fingers and hands and wrists are sore.

The Victorian pedal bicycle was a wonderful thing in its day. But today I know we can to better.

For me, I am just a pedestrian, where my scooter is my “running machineâ€￾. Yes, I still honour the Baron and his Laufmachine.

My next vehicle won’t be an “electric scooterâ€￾ at all, but a “Drayâ€￾, in His name. After all, he kicked too!

The power-assist just “kicksâ€￾ my vehicle up to a new level, and makes my scoot practical for the longer distances.

Thanks

Lock

Nice research Lock.

D-Man said:

Nice research Lock.

Click to expand...

Tks D-Man. Like I said, over five years plus 10k+ kms of commutes, and following along w/the conversations in the EV community as things develop.

And like I said, there's more.

The stand-up kick scoot ain't perfect. I don't know the physics of wheel size versus rolling resistance. My understanding is, the larger the diameter the better. Whether this is entirely a function of the better quality tires available for the larger diameters or due to some aspect of physics, I do not know.

But from the practicality standpoint, smaller is better, as shorter overall vehicle length (without compromising wheel base.)

And that there is such a thing as *too* small. The tiny wheels used for kids kick scoots provide a rough ride and can get caught in cracks easily.

Standing up is probably the worst possible config for aero.

Something folks *can* try on a scoot (harder to do I imagine on the pedal bike), is sitting down (where safe, eg an empty sidewalk) when encountering a headwind. The difference in speed is dramatic as the scoot speeds up/slows down w/sitting then standing.

A great illustration of just how much power is needed just to get through the air.

But standing up also means eyeballs are slightly higher than when seated on most pedal bikes, and this provides a slightly better view of things, and I think makes the rider/vehicle slightly easier to be seen too.

Standing up (where head height is slightly higher than seated) means that over time you will encounter more tree branches, street signs, guy wires whatever that would otherwise be overhead, literally.

I get around this with most travels on familiar routes, where I know the pavements and obsticals. On unfamiliar routes and in the dark, I slow down. Eye protection is a good idea for many reasons, the same as on a pedal bike I guess.

I referred to the 2000 study by the US CPSC, where they studied the accident stats from hospital reports (but no study of the unpowered kick scoots themselves.)

There has been one study undertaken by government on scooters with power-assist...

This study was undertaken by the Centre for Electric Vehicle Experimentation in Quebec, in 2004. (Centre d’expérimentation des véhicules électriques du Québec (CEVEQ), St. Jérôme, Quebec)

In a two-phase study, the first phase studied the Segway plus several scoots, this only on an indoor track set up for the purpose.

The results were published as Transport Canada study TP 14285E.
The summary here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/tdc/summary/14200/14285e.htm

The detailed report as pdf, here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/tdc/publication/pdf/14200/14285e.pdf

The Recommendations for the first phase study, from the Summary above:

The results of the technical and ergonomic evaluations carried out in Phase 1 of the Fly-Trottel Project clearly demonstrated that Segways have safe handling ability. In addition, most users who participated in the study found that scooters and Segways were easy to use and safe for trips on the test tracks.

It is therefore recommended that Phase 2 of the Fly-Trottel Project, in which electric scooters and Segways will be evaluated in actual-use conditions, be carried out according to procedures established by the Project partners. Evaluations in actual-use conditions will be helpful in the search for a new regulatory framework by defining technical characteristics and conditions in which the MPTDs can be used. The following will be evaluated in Phase 2:

Reliability and safety of these devices when used in urban areas
Social acceptability of scooters and Segways in Quebec
Ability of these devices to replace automobiles for short trips in urban areas

** end of recommendations **

Three things CEVEQ didn't mention about their Phase One study:
1) The tests were performed entirely by "newbies"...
2) The retail value of the scoots was one-tenth the price of the Segway
3) They chose to study the cheapest and worst examples of scooters available. Can EVeryone say YONGKANG?

Rather like deciding to permit automobiles on the streets, buying a bunch of Yugos and handing them over to a bunch of beginner drivers...

EVen the Segway, I suggest, is a miserable example of a personal electric. Useless without a charge in it's batteries. Zero opportunity to get some exercise. Too heavy to hoist around easily. Vastly overpriced because of it's limited production.

In spite of the recommendations from Phase One, *someone* made the determination that ONLY the Segway would advance to the second phase, testing on actual sidewalks and roadways.

When asked about why the scooters were dropped, here was the reply from Transport Canada:

Subject: RE: Evaluation of the Segway
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:14:40 -0500
From: "Guérette, Claude" <GUERETC>
To: "Lock Hughes" <lockhughes>
CC: "Sylvain Castonguay (E-mail)" <scastonguay>

Mr. Hughes, the Segway evaluation phase 2 is now being concluded with
a report early in the New Year.

We did not pursue the evaluation of other personal mobility devices
because of the variety of configurations and the difficulty to
categorize them and compare them. It may be something that will be
undertaken in the future by CEVEQ.

For more info, I recommend that you get in-touch with CEVEQ who leads
this evaluation project.

Thanks for your interest.

Claude Guérette, ing.

...because of the variety of configurations and the difficulty to
categorize them and compare them.

Click to expand...

What the hell???? While EVery day, Transport Canada rubber stamps the latest designs for the newest SUVs and Minivans? How hard it must be for them to deliberate over all the variety of configurations of large four-wheel vehicles that I see permitted on the roads today...

Our Transport Canada claims their first priority is safety on our roads, and I say to them, show me the built in safety features in these huge vehicles, for folks on two wheels and on foot...

Why do they have motors rated in hundreds of hosepower, when I am passing these vehicles with a motor rated at less than one horse?

Why are they designed to go two or three or more times urban speed limits?

Why are they designed to run three-quarters empty, as a driver with three or more empty seats?

More later, scoots versus the Victorian pedal bike, to get back on topic.. <grin>

tks

Lock

I've been tinkering with escooters for a few years starting from currie standup to mini pocketbikes and on to full size vespa type scoots. Just recently I built my first ebike and I'm pretty sure ebikes are more efficient. My last attempt for a long range scooter was a etek'd modded full size Lepton scooter. Loaded with 72v/33Ah of lead the Lepton could only manage ~25 miles at a cruising speed of only 20-22mph. Cruise it at 40mph it would get around 10mi of range. My ebike cruising at 20-22mph with hardly any peddling gets ~22mi of range (can probably squeeze out 25mi ) with a 52v/9Ah lithium pack. Even though the ebike is running lithiums I can just feel a big difference in rolling resistance between the larger ebike wheels compared to any of the much smaller scooter wheels regardless of tire pressure. It takes less watts on the ebike to maintain speed and on any slight downhill I can let off on the throttle completely, an escoot will slow down pretty significantly when letting off on the throttle compared to an ebike. I no longer ride any of my escooters and will most likely be selling them or parting them out.

One only has to try pedaling one of the scooter style ebikes around to realize the huge difference in efficiency. A friend has one of these: http://www.gwev.com/surmdelbik.html and trying to pedal it anywhere is pretty much a wasted effort due to weight and drag.

Lowell said:

One only has to try pedaling one of the scooter style ebikes around to realize the huge difference in efficiency. A friend has one of these: http://www.gwev.com/surmdelbik.html and trying to pedal it anywhere is pretty much a wasted effort due to weight and drag.

Click to expand...

Kinda like the old 70s-80s gas mopeds, peddles were only good for getting the gas motor started.

Hi Dave

How is the Puma going? my one is still running great at 48V the BMX is still going ok as well, was out on it today so much fun such an amazing kick of acceleration in that little wheel!

You are right the big e-scoots are slugs in comparison, I found the lack of range of scoots and big heavy motor powered bikes to be their downfall, I am like you I dropped all my heavy motor projects as the e-bike offers so much better range and performance, I do 80 miles most weekends on just 20Ah or so with very light peddling, big motor projects are fine if you have decent batteries, also I have a gas motorbike which I use for motorbike days.

The thing I like about the Puma lipo combo is you have a very light motor combined with a light powerful battery, the BMX is tiny powerful and light, I can lift it with one hand up steps and run up the steps, then use the bike to climb a 16% grade or run at 22mph on the flat all using a 37V battery, thats pretty neat.

The power to weight ratio of a light stripped down e-bike is a lot better than the scooters, combine that with high pressure slicks and lipos and you have it.

I would love to do an electric motorbike but I will only do it when I have enough money to put lipos in it to get decent range, even an electric motorbike cant get through the traffic as quick as an e-bike as you can nip down alleyways through gaps etc.

There is nothing wrong with those type of scoots though and I would much rather see them on the road than loads of noisy stinking gassers.

Knoxie

maytag said:

I've been tinkering with escooters for a few years starting from currie standup to mini pocketbikes and on to full size vespa type scoots. Just recently I built my first ebike and I'm pretty sure ebikes are more efficient. My last attempt for a long range scooter was a etek'd modded full size Lepton scooter. Loaded with 72v/33Ah of lead the Lepton could only manage ~25 miles at a cruising speed of only 20-22mph. Cruise it at 40mph it would get around 10mi of range. My ebike cruising at 20-22mph with hardly any peddling gets ~22mi of range (can probably squeeze out 25mi ) with a 52v/9Ah lithium pack. Even though the ebike is running lithiums I can just feel a big difference in rolling resistance between the larger ebike wheels compared to any of the much smaller scooter wheels regardless of tire pressure. It takes less watts on the ebike to maintain speed and on any slight downhill I can let off on the throttle completely, an escoot will slow down pretty significantly when letting off on the throttle compared to an ebike. I no longer ride any of my escooters and will most likely be selling them or parting them out.

Click to expand...

I'm using 72V 12Ah of lead-acid on an e-bike and get about 10 miles' range at 38-42 mph. However, it's not remotely accurate to say scooters get 36% (12/33) of the efficiency of bikes. That's partly because you used a Lepton, which is significantly heavier (by like 150 lbs probably) since it's designed for handling at higher speeds; cheaper mountain bikes aren't designed for 40 mph and it shows. But the main reason is the Lepton uses an Etek, which uses tons of current.

So you can either compare Etek&chain vs hub motor, or small scooter (like a stand-up scooter) vs bike, or large scooter (like a Lepton) vs bike.

maytag said:

I've been tinkering with escooters for a few years starting from currie standup to mini pocketbikes and on to full size vespa type scoots. Just recently I built my first ebike and I'm pretty sure ebikes are more efficient.

Click to expand...

Yup! Just not as safe, as comfortable, as practical or as fun as the kick scoot w/power assist.

tks

Lock

Just to clarify my comments, ebike versus escoot...

I have no wish to "beat" the Victorian pedal bicycle. It is a wonderful thing. I have read that it was partly responsible for the emancipation of women... as affordable transportation when a family could not afford the cost of a two-horse stable...

I only would like to beat the 20th-century automobile.

After 100 years of cheap and dirty energy, 98% of Canadians still agree with the statement that the pedal bicycle is not their primary form of transportation. Plenty of room for improvement...

tks

Lock

knoxie said:

Hi Dave

How is the Puma going? my one is still running great at 48V the BMX is still going ok as well, was out on it today so much fun such an amazing kick of acceleration in that little wheel!

The thing I like about the Puma lipo combo is you have a very light motor combined with a light powerful battery, the BMX is tiny powerful and light, I can lift it with one hand up steps and run up the steps, then use the bike to climb a 16% grade or run at 22mph on the flat all using a 37V battery, thats pretty neat.

The power to weight ratio of a light stripped down e-bike is a lot better than the scooters, combine that with high pressure slicks and lipos and you have it.

Knoxie

Click to expand...

Hey Knoxie,

The Puma is still doing great at 54v with the modded controller. Had the day off from work yesterday so I took the GT out to a lake for some fishing. There are so many benefits to having such a light rig, I can just fold down the 2 rear seats in the SUV and easily pick up and lay the GT in the back. Drove a ways to check out a fishing lake and found a nearby neighborhood to park my SUV, saved me $5.00 on the lake parking fee. It woulda been an unpleasant walk to the lake from where I parked. I didnt mind not catching any fish that day, I planned the trip more to explore a lake that I've never fished at and having the GT made it so easy getting around the lake (4 times actually). Winds were gusting 30-40mph so if on foot I highly doubt I would have taken the time to walk even once around the lake.

My lake trip really isnt too far off from the original escoot vs ebike topic. I admit an escooter like an ESR or BladeZ woulda been easier to throw in the back of the SUV for this trip but I did pass up a Police officer and a Ranger in the Lake parking lot on my way to pick up a fishing permit. Both didnt even blink as I passed them by, not so sure they woulda been so friendly if I was on an escooter. I was able to ride my ebike right down next to the water and the rangers didnt even pay attention, an escooter would have definitely raised some eyebrows. Just about everyone assumes I'm just riding a regular non-assisted bicycle, until they notice I'm cruising uphill without peddling (while I'm trying to keep a straight face :lol: )

Just last weekend I took the family out on a biking/fishing trip which required us to use the bicycle rack. I managed to get three bikes on the rack including the eGT.